In the ongoing Vision 2030 series, AXIS Network had the pleasure of interviewing Dr Nike Folayan, MBE, Co-Founder of AFBE and Technical Director, WSP. Nike emphasised the importance of human centric, systemic change in shaping the industry's future and urged companies to invest in and prioritise engaging the future talent, now. She highlighted the necessity to challenge our perception and working conditions, and triple our efforts to achieve significant transformation by 2030.
Q: From your perspective, what does gender equity look like for you, your working life and your, your children's working life?
Gender equity for me is not just about having more of this or more of that, it's about balance and how we get there. We hear [industry] say we need more women in the industry, and no one's actually thought about what that entails, what it entails for not just the women, but their families, their well-being and the society.
I think we need a deep dive into what gender equity actually means, because a lot of the time it's misunderstood as having X percentage of women in the industry rather than what conditions are those women needing in the industry? How are they going to operate within those conditions and how is it going to impact society as a whole?
We are where we are today because we have and continue to centre men as default human and that can mean we prioritise finding an easy solution to a very complex problem.
Q: With AFBE the focus is engineering across all sectors, what are you seeing in terms of gender equity for the next generation of engineers? (benefits or otherwise)
There's a shocking report that broke my heart this year. Released by Engineering UK that showed that 38,000 women between the ages of 35 and 60 have left the industry between 2022 and 2023, and that means the percentage of women in the engineering industry has come down from about 16.9% to 15.5%. That is worrying. We're trying to attract as many women as we can into the industry without actually changing the conditions within the industry that allow those women to thrive. By the time you’re in the age range of 35 to 60, you've been long enough in the industry to know whether this is where you want to remain, that age range is the pipeline companies should have in leadership positions. When women get to those age brackets, they’re making the decision as to whether this industry is a place for them to thrive or not.
What the data shows is that right now, engineering isn't a thriving environment.
That’s what we need to work on, because there's nothing worse than pushing the message about engineering as a great career path, generating excitement, bringing people into the industry only to find systemic biases; finding that they can't get to those leadership positions; finding that they have to change who they are…They have to be more masculine, they have to accept 'loud' banter, adopting personas to fit into and maybe thrive in the environments.
The Royal Academy of Engineering issued a report on inclusive cultures in 2022 and that report shows that there are a number of issues around the culture of the [engineering] industry that needs to change if we truly intend to achieve gender equity not only to attract, but to retain women and other individuals that don’t fit the default persona.
Q: What do you see as the future of the engineering industry and the type of workforce needed to take action, push boundaries and deliver the energy transition?
The challenge is, we are currently recruiting in our own image and when you meet someone in the industry that is slightly different, (even simply wears bright colours) we see them as different.
The industry talks about 'the best talent' a lot. We don't need the best talent. We need the best teams because the best teams are made-up of people with different strengths and abilities.
· There will be some people that will be very technically minded.
· There will be others that will be strategically minded.
· There will be others that their focus is on empathy and making everyone feel included
Until we have teams where we have multiple abilities, diverse experiences , talents, skills, we are not going to be as innovative. The better the breadth of experiences in the team, the better the creativity, the better as a result the innovation
Until we embrace those differences, and we see the value in those differences, we're going to continue to maintain the status quo. This is essential for the energy transition. We have a lot of unknowns to answer, many risks to manage and not a lot of time. We need innovative solutions to deliver in this high-pressure, high-stakes environment.
Q: What role do you feel the Gender Pay Gap reporting plays in supporting a diverse and successful workforce? Is it a positive metric or a distraction?
It's definitely not a distraction. I think it's an important piece of the puzzle because it underpins how people feel valued. A lot of organisations do their gender pay gap reporting and then they say at least we're better than X or Y”. These are engineering energy companies that strive to be the best in other areas, so why, when it comes to things like pay gap reporting, they take pride in not being the worst?
That mentality needs to change. We value other aspects of engineering like safety, we need to value diversity, equity and inclusion activities because these activities are what retains the diverse workforce, which increases creativity.
One way for organisations to view and respond differently to Pay Gap reporting is, instead of reporting pay gap data because it is a mandate and viewed as a box ticking exercise, do it with heart, drilling into the data to understand what’s going on. Drive the actions that follow to reduce the pay gap, this generates creativity, and selfishly, generates more revenue.
Another action for organisations to consider is to make it more transparent. Make people undertaking the work to drive equity, feel more valued and help them to understand the work they are doing is required and necessarily to be the best company in your field. It is part of what you do, not just doing it. This isn’t just the HR department, but the business leaders and mangers too.
Q: What role do you think equity, diversity & inclusion (EDI) plays in securing future talent for the engineering industry in the UK?
I think it has a fundamental role. It is central because EDI looks at the breath of diversity that we can create and the breadth of diversity that we have. We need to be weaving EDI into every conversation about energy, not treating it as a separate issue.
In 2021, I attended the Labour Party's Green Energy Forum. The first thing I noticed was I was the only Black woman in the room, and there was one Asian guy who, I later found out, also happens to be a member of AFBE. I realised that whilst all the discussion points were really good points, it didn't actually touch on issues around equality, diversity and inclusion (EDI). My view is that If we are serious about driving change like Net Zero, then we need to consider EDI as a focal point and how it impacts where we are getting the talent from within the UK.
A study by the office of national statistics shows that by 2030, the percentage of diverse people in the UK would have doubled from 15% to 30. That is the future talent. How are we engaging them? If you ask your team what is Net Zero? You will likely hear all sorts of weird and wonderful responses, but they won’t likely touch on the future talent, and these are people in the industry today. To drive change and make a difference to the sector, we need to think about what the future talent looks like, where they are, and start to engage them now.
We see people using social media, LinkedIn, TikTok but how many of those TikTok influencers are actually talking about the energy industry? That's where we need to start to attract people because that's where they're going to hear the message. That's the future talent that we're looking for.
Q: Post George Floyd and the implementation of gender pay gap reporting some companies believe that D&I initiatives are no longer relevant. Do you think that is the case? Why? Why not?
There are a number of reasons why there is a perception that D&I initiatives are no longer relevant.
The first one, which is not very popular, is diversity fatigue. Really enthusiastic people within these organisations are putting in so much effort to shift the dial, seeing the results and thinking this isn't what I want. I need this to be more impactful. They're getting really tired and they're slowing down because they don't see that the support that they need to actually make a difference is happening.
The second thing is talk is cheap. Investment is important. Many organisations undertake activity to look good on days like International Women in Engineering Day, how many are financially supporting activity to drive gender parity? How many financially support local organisations doing impactful work like AXIS vs paying for subscription services that are underutilised? We know investment isn’t getting to the organisations that have a heart in the game and want to make a difference.
This is core of diversity fatigue. The investment is not being spent in the right places, whether it’s in individuals and not the systems around them or wanting to look intentional but hiring or engaging the services of organisations, but not driving systemic change. Therefore, the demonstrable return on investment isn’t there, so roles and activities get cut.
Q: What must we do to get there by 2030?
2030 is not far away from here and I really liked the vision. We can count the number of months and days before we get to 2030, and that is critical – it gives it a sense of urgency. We need to double, triple our efforts to actually get to where we need to be and where we need to go from there.
People need to feel valued within their organisations. Women need to feel valued within the organisation that they work for, not just because of their technical skills but because of their diverse talent. People need to see representation in leadership roles in their organisations and not just a particular type of women appear to 'fit' into the current work environments
We need allies that actually stand up for equity, at the moment we have a lot of silent supporters. My brother and AFBE co-founder, Ollie Folayan always says Allyship is not a badge, it's a battle scar.
We need people to actively stand up; for what they believe, get involved, and support this movement.
People at board level need to see gender equity as important and commit to measuring progress and being accountable. Promotions and progression within organisations should consider metrics around inclusion and equity because until we do that, it will always be a diversion to real business.
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